Dawkins funds atheist summer camp

I fail to see what telepathy has to do with religion or belief in god. I'm an atheist but have an open mind on telepathy, principally since animals, my dogs for instance, exhibit something that can only be described as telepathy. Just because the naked ape became the chattering ape, doesn't mean there aren't non-verbal ways of communication. I'm all for exposing bunkum like crop circles [which some deluded people still believe are made by aliens despite several people confessing to having started it all, and others of continuing it, even to the methods used], and of course the existance of a god, but telepathy is an entirely different matter; just because there is at present no acceptable scientific explanation doesn't mean it isn't real, there is still a limit to our knowledge. Why is Dawkins described as an 'arch-atheist' though? How does this differ from just an atheist? Is Rachel indulging in tabloid hyperbole?

Posted by Peter Simmons at 2:04pm on June 29, 2009

Shouldn't a summer camp that's free from all religious dogma also be free of atheistic dogma? A place where children can enjoy their summer break, have adventures and think freely sounds wonderful; an atheist boot camp doesn't. Let children make their own decisions as they grow and learn about the world. I am also an atheist, and agree with much of Dawkins' reasoning, but surely one of his arguments has always been that we shouldn't have religious belief forced on us as truth - doesn't this include the 'new religion' of atheism? I don't want this rammed down my throat any more than I want JW leaflets through my door, or nurses offering to pray for me. And - as Peter says above - we should have open minds about the world around us, not be indoctrinated about any one point of view. Especially children: let them be children.

Posted by fruitbat at 4:07pm on June 29, 2009

I agree with fruitbat's comments. Emphasizing "atheism" - the lack of belief - as a philosophy or way of thinking, is against the notion of free thinking. Free thinking is about *not* labeling people. When you label a summer camp "atheist", whether you like it or not, there's going to be peer pressure within the camp - peer pressure to conform to a popular notion of the "atheist mindset", which could actually serve as an intellectual straight-jacket. I'd rather it just be a "summer camp", and let children learn about the world for themselves, without any element of coercion or peer pressure, no matter how subtle it may be.

Posted by Jonathan Conway at 6:07am on July 2, 2009

As an (alleged) scientist, shouldn't Dawkins being showing the kids how to _investigate_ telepathy, rather than how to _disprove_ it ? Unless, of course, Dawkins already knows the right answer to every question, in which case he must be, er, God.

Posted by Hammy Hamster at 1:11pm on July 2, 2009

i think most of you here have this all wrong. this camp won't teach indoctrination, it's teaching kids HOW TO THINK. there's a huge, HUGE difference between telling kids WHAT to think and teaching them how to think critically, which is what this camp is aiming for. i really hope others follow suit and create just as many "atheist camps" for all the freak-job religious ones that exist already and which are making this country more dangerous. the only think i didn't like was the bit about telephathy. true, there isn't enough empirical evidence on this, but there is research underway to see if it's a possibility that it exists. it has nothing to do with god or "supernatural" powers. i actually really think that the existence of telepathy is very plausible and likely. take a look at the way animals communicate and how they can "predict" weather changes, natural disasters, and epileptic convulsions before they happen. there has got to be something there. maybe it's not telepathy, but i wouldn't discount it. even hardcore atheists like sam harris don't. we might discover that telephathy really IS "natural", after all.

Posted by eden belen von schnauzer at 4:03pm on July 2, 2009

What is interesting is that Dawkins clearly sees himself as a Messiah sent to change the way the world thinks - not unlike someone else a couple of thousand years ago. Ah well there is nothing new under the sun (as they say in Ecclesiastes 1:9)

Posted by Simon Martin at 10:54am on July 3, 2009

The non-religion of atheism (because it's not a religion) forced down their throats? Well, it depends on how it's presented, I suppose. Teaching them about rational skepticism is a good starting point as it'll put them in a position to realise they can be skeptical about anything, including what's being taught at the camp. Some of the problem may also be in the wording of the article. Is this a layperson misinterpreting what was said and not reporting that it'll be looking at how to expose charlatans, or argue from the point that there's no evidence to support that what's happening is telepathy? The root of atheism is skepticism and perhaps these should rather be skeptic camps. To Simon Martin - what Dawkins sees is the religious fanatics stomping around the place with assumed impunity and not enough people taking a stand against it. He's outraged by the unjustifiable special treatment that religion gets and the fact that so few speak out against it. Yes, he's taken on championing a particular cause as loudly as he can, though presumably no one asked him to. However, just because one can draw an arbitrary parallel between that and Jesus (or any number of other people throughout history who've done such things), doesn't mean he's doing it because he thinks he's the new messiah. In fact, making such assumptions is antithetical to his aims.

Posted by CTheB at 12:45pm on July 3, 2009

Aren't the poor kids supposed to be on holiday?

Posted by Toby Draper at 6:00pm on July 5, 2009

While this does mention that the goal is to teach them how to think, there seems to be a focus on aggressive or "offensive" thought with a goal of disproof, or logical/rational warfare (ahem, "debate"). This is not dissimilar to the Christian "apologetic" that is taught at many church camps. Both are trained to fight, primarily each other, using the same weapons. Both exhibit the height of humanistic thought, or rather, the decline of humanism as a viable outlook. All these poor kids are spiritual/intellectual casualties... Maybe I'll just take my own kids camping.

Posted by Daniel Shackelford at 3:21am on July 7, 2009

Presumably Peter Simmons is being satirical by telling us he is happy to believe in telepathy despite the lack of evidence, while also claiming to be an atheist, but his intellect lets him down when taking the author to task on her calling Dawkins an arch-atheist. Writers rarely have a say in the headline and standfirst that go with their story - that is down to the sub-editor or editor. However, perhaps the subeditor or editor was also being satirical in using a prefix often associated with bishops to describe the planet's foremost atheist.

Posted by Holly Cox at 1:38pm on July 7, 2009

People who see Dawkins as an "atheism messiah" should *really* read "The God Delusion". It's not about investigation x disproving: in fact, the burden of proof for any idea (in particular those that do not arise from diligent observation, such as telepathy or the existence of god) should be with those who state it - but those people are never too willing to pay attention to any proof that does not endorse their opinions. It is about thinking critically - and disproving ideas that have no background is part of it.

Posted by Carlos Nascimento at 2:18am on July 11, 2009

I disagree that a summer camp catering to free and critical thinking equates in any way with indoctrination as once one gains the ability and insight to think for one's self, using the tools of skepticism and systems of critical thought, one usually becomes immune to indoctrination. I assume that fruitbat, above, must have meant inculcate rather than "indoctrinate" as atheism teaches no dogma or uncritical belief system. Human beings are dangerous enough without the soporific unreason of religion and it's bellicose army of the faithful. Would you really not want your children to be prepared for the inane discourse of the believers while also having fun and exiting adventures outdoors? I only wish such a project was available in my area of the states.

Posted by Billy Hutton at 4:55pm on September 21, 2009